Canon 1Ds Mark III vs M3

The Canon EOS-1Ds Mark III and the Canon EOS M3 are two digital cameras that were officially introduced, respectively, in August 2007 and February 2015. The 1Ds Mark III is a DSLR, while the M3 is a mirrorless interchangeable lens camera. The cameras are based on a full frame (1Ds Mark III) and an APS-C (M3) sensor. The 1Ds Mark III has a resolution of 21 megapixels, whereas the M3 provides 24 MP.

Below is an overview of the main specs of the two cameras as a starting point for the comparison.

Headline Specifications

Canon 1Ds Mark III		Canon M3
Digital single lens reflex		Mirrorless system camera
Canon EF mount lenses		Canon EF-M mount lenses
21 MP – Full Frame sensor		24 MP – APS-C sensor
no Video		1080/30p Video
ISO 100-1,600 (50 - 3,200)		ISO 100-12,800 (100 - 25,600)
Optical viewfinder		Viewfinder optional
3.0" LCD – 230k dots		3.0" LCD – 1040k dots
Fixed screen (not touch-sensitive)		Tilting touchscreen
5 shutter flaps per second		4.2 shutter flaps per second
Weathersealed body		not weather sealed
1800 shots per battery charge		250 shots per battery charge
150 x 160 x 80 mm, 1385 g		111 x 68 x 44 mm, 366 g

Check 1Ds Mark III offers at
ebay.com
Check M3 offers at
ebay.com

Going beyond this snapshot of core features and characteristics, what are the differences between the Canon EOS-1Ds Mark III and the Canon EOS M3? Which one should you buy? Read on to find out how these two cameras compare with respect to their body size, their imaging sensors, their shooting features, their input-output connections, and their reception by expert reviewers.

Body comparison

The physical size and weight of the Canon 1Ds Mark III and the Canon M3 are illustrated in the side-by-side display below. The two cameras are presented according to their relative size. Three consecutive views from the front, the top, and the rear side are shown. All size dimensions are rounded to the nearest millimeter.

The M3 can be obtained in two different colors (black, white), while the 1Ds Mark III is only available in black.

If the front view area (width x height) of the cameras is taken as an aggregate measure of their size, the Canon M3 is considerably smaller (69 percent) than the Canon 1Ds Mark III. Moreover, the M3 is substantially lighter (74 percent) than the 1Ds Mark III. It is worth mentioning in this context that the 1Ds Mark III is splash and dust resistant, while the M3 does not feature any corresponding weather-sealing.

The above size and weight comparisons are to some extent incomplete since they do not consider the interchangeable lenses that both of these cameras require. Hence, you might want to study and compare the specifications of available lenses in order to get the full picture of the size and weight of the two camera systems.

Concerning battery life, the 1Ds Mark III gets 1800 shots out of its Canon LP-E4 battery, while the M3 can take 250 images on a single charge of its Canon LP-E17 power pack. As can be seen in the images above, the 1Ds Mark III has a battery grip built in. This facilitates image-taking in portrait orientation and gives it additional battery power.

The table below summarizes the key physical specs of the two cameras alongside a broader set of comparators. If you would like to visualize and compare a different camera combination, you can navigate to the CAM-parator app and make your selection from a broad list of cameras there.

Body Specifications

#		Camera Model	Camera Width	Camera Height	Camera Depth	Camera Weight	Battery Life	Weather Sealing	Camera Launch	Launch Price (USD)	Street Price
1.		Canon 1Ds Mark III	150 mm	160 mm	80 mm	1385 g	1800	Y	Aug 2007	7,999	ebay.com
2.		Canon M3	111 mm	68 mm	44 mm	366 g	250	n	Feb 2015	679	ebay.com
3.		Canon 1D X Mark III	158 mm	168 mm	83 mm	1440 g	2850	Y	Jan 2020	6,499	amazon.com
4.		Canon M6	112 mm	68 mm	45 mm	390 g	295	n	Feb 2017	779	ebay.com
5.		Canon 1D X Mark II	158 mm	168 mm	83 mm	1530 g	1210	Y	Feb 2016	5,999	ebay.com
6.		Canon M5	116 mm	89 mm	61 mm	427 g	295	n	Sep 2016	979	ebay.com
7.		Canon M10	108 mm	67 mm	35 mm	301 g	255	n	Oct 2015	499	ebay.com
8.		Canon G7 X	103 mm	60 mm	40 mm	304 g	210	n	Sep 2014	699	ebay.com
9.		Canon 1D C	158 mm	164 mm	83 mm	1545 g	1120	Y	Apr 2012	14,999	ebay.com
10.		Canon 5D Mark III	152 mm	116 mm	76 mm	950 g	950	Y	Mar 2012	3,499	ebay.com
11.		Canon 6D	145 mm	111 mm	71 mm	770 g	1090	Y	Sep 2012	2,099	ebay.com
12.		Canon M	109 mm	66 mm	32 mm	298 g	230	n	Jul 2012	599	ebay.com
13.		Canon 1D X	158 mm	168 mm	83 mm	1551 g	1120	Y	Oct 2011	6,799	ebay.com
14.		Canon 5D Mark II	152 mm	114 mm	75 mm	850 g	850	Y	Sep 2008	3,499	ebay.com
15.		Canon 1D Mark III	156 mm	157 mm	80 mm	1155 g	2200	Y	Feb 2007	4,499	ebay.com
16.		Canon 1Ds Mark II	156 mm	158 mm	80 mm	1215 g	1200	Y	Sep 2004	7,999	ebay.com
17.		Nikon D3X	160 mm	157 mm	88 mm	1260 g	4400	Y	Dec 2008	7,999	ebay.com
Note: Measurements and pricing do not include easily detachable parts, such as add-on or interchangeable lenses or optional viewfinders.
Convert to Imperial

Any camera decision will obviously take relative prices into account. The manufacturer’s suggested retail prices give an idea on the placement of the camera in the maker’s lineup and the broader market. The M3 was launched at a markedly lower price (by 92 percent) than the 1Ds Mark III, which puts it into a different market segment. Usually, retail prices stay at first close to the launch price, but after several months, discounts become available. Later in the product cycle and, in particular, when the replacement model is about to appear, further discounting and stock clearance sales often push the camera price considerably down. Then, after the new model is out, very good deals can frequently be found on the pre-owned market.

Sensor comparison

The imaging sensor is at the core of digital cameras and its size is one of the main determining factors of image quality. A large sensor will generally have larger individual pixels that offer better low-light sensitivity, provide wider dynamic range, and have richer color-depth than smaller pixels in a sensor of the same technological generation. Moreover, a large sensor camera will give the photographer more control over depth-of-field in the image and, thus, the ability to better isolate a subject from the background. On the downside, larger sensors are more costly to manufacture and tend to lead to bigger and heavier cameras and lenses.

Of the two cameras under consideration, the Canon 1Ds Mark III features a full frame sensor and the Canon M3 an APS-C sensor. The sensor area in the M3 is 62 percent smaller. As a result of these sensor size differences, the cameras have a format factor of, respectively, 1.0 and 1.6. Both cameras have a native aspect ratio (sensor width to sensor height) of 3:2.

Despite having a smaller sensor, the M3 offers a higher resolution of 24 megapixels, compared with 21 MP of the 1Ds Mark III. This megapixels advantage comes at the cost of a higher pixel density and a smaller size of the individual pixel (with a pixel pitch of 3.72μm versus 6.41μm for the 1Ds Mark III). However, it should be noted that the M3 is much more recent (by 7 years and 5 months) than the 1Ds Mark III, and its sensor will have benefitted from technological advances during this time that make it possible to gather light more efficiently.

The resolution advantage of the Canon M3 implies greater flexibility for cropping images or the possibility to print larger pictures. The maximum print size of the M3 for good quality output (200 dots per inch) amounts to 30 x 20 inches or 76.2 x 50.8 cm, for very good quality (250 dpi) 24 x 16 inches or 61 x 40.6 cm, and for excellent quality (300 dpi) 20 x 13.3 inches or 50.8 x 33.9 cm. The corresponding values for the Canon 1Ds Mark III are 28.1 x 18.7 inches or 71.3 x 47.5 cm for good quality, 22.5 x 15 inches or 57.1 x 38 cm for very good quality, and 18.7 x 12.5 inches or 47.5 x 31.7 cm for excellent quality prints.

The M3 has on-sensor phase detect pixels, which results in fast and reliable autofocus acquisition even during live view operation.

The Canon EOS-1Ds Mark III has a native sensitivity range from ISO 100 to ISO 1600, which can be extended to ISO 50-3200. The corresponding ISO settings for the Canon EOS M3 are ISO 100 to ISO 12800, with the possibility to increase the ISO range to 100-25600.

Technology-wise, both cameras are equipped with CMOS (Complementary Metal–Oxide–Semiconductor) sensors. Both cameras use a Bayer filter for capturing RGB colors on a square grid of photosensors. This arrangement is found in most digital cameras.

Since 2007, DXO Mark has published sensor performance measurements that have been derived using a consistent methodology. This service determines an overall sensor rating, as well as sub-scores for low-light sensitivity ("DXO Sports"), dynamic range ("DXO Landscape"), and color depth ("DXO Portrait"). Of the two cameras under review, the 1Ds Mark III has a notably higher overall DXO score than the M3 (overall score 8 points higher), which gives it an advantage in terms of imaging quality. This advantage is based on 1.2 bits higher color depth, 0.2 EV in additional dynamic range, and 0.5 stops in additional low light sensitivity. The following table provides an overview of the physical sensor characteristics, as well as the sensor quality measurements for a selection of comparators.

Sensor Characteristics

#		Camera Model	Sensor Class	Resolution (MP)	Horiz. Pixels	Vert. Pixels	Video Format	DXO Portrait	DXO Landscape	DXO Sports	DXO Overall
1.		Canon 1Ds Mark III	Full Frame	21.0	5616	3744	none	24.0	12.0	1663	80
2.		Canon M3	APS-C	24.0	6000	4000	1080/30p	22.8	11.8	1169	72
3.		Canon 1D X Mark III	Full Frame	20.0	5472	3648	4K/60p	24.2	14.5	3248	91
4.		Canon M6	APS-C	24.0	6000	4000	1080/60p	23.4	12.6	1317	78
5.		Canon 1D X Mark II	Full Frame	20.0	5472	3648	4K/60p	24.1	13.5	3207	88
6.		Canon M5	APS-C	24.0	6000	4000	1080/60p	23.4	12.4	1262	77
7.		Canon M10	APS-C	17.9	5184	3456	1080/30p	22.2	11.4	753	65
8.		Canon G7 X	1-inch	20.0	5472	3648	1080/60p	23.0	12.7	556	71
9.		Canon 1D C	Full Frame	17.9	5184	3456	4K/24p	24.3	13.0	2155	85
10.		Canon 5D Mark III	Full Frame	22.1	5760	3840	1080/30p	24.0	11.7	2293	81
11.		Canon 6D	Full Frame	20.0	5472	3648	1080/30p	23.8	12.1	2340	82
12.		Canon M	APS-C	17.9	5184	3456	1080/30p	22.1	11.2	827	65
13.		Canon 1D X	Full Frame	17.9	5184	3456	1080/30p	23.8	11.8	2786	82
14.		Canon 5D Mark II	Full Frame	21.0	5616	3744	1080/30p	23.7	11.9	1815	79
15.		Canon 1D Mark III	APS-H	10.1	3888	2592	none	22.7	11.7	1078	71
16.		Canon 1Ds Mark II	Full Frame	16.6	4992	3328	none	23.3	11.3	1480	74
17.		Nikon D3X	Full Frame	24.4	6048	4032	none	24.7	13.7	1992	88
Note: DXO values in italics represent estimates based on sensor size and age.

Many modern cameras are not only capable of taking still images, but can also record movies. The M3 indeed provides for movie recording, while the 1Ds Mark III does not. The highest resolution format that the M3 can use is 1080/30p.

Feature comparison

Apart from body and sensor, cameras can and do differ across a variety of features. For example, the 1Ds Mark III has an optical viewfinder, which can be very useful when shooting in bright sunlight. In contrast, the M3 relies on live view and the rear LCD for framing. That said, the M3 can be equipped with an optional viewfinder – the EVF-DC1. The table below summarizes some of the other core capabilities of the Canon 1Ds Mark III and Canon M3 in connection with corresponding information for a sample of similar cameras.

Core Features

#		Camera Model	Viewfinder (Type or 000 dots)	Control Panel (yes/no)	LCD Specifications (inch/000 dots)	LCD Attach- ment	Touch Screen (yes/no)	Max Shutter Speed *	Max Shutter Flaps *	Built-in Flash (yes/no)	Built-in Image Stab
1.		Canon 1Ds Mark III	optical	Y	3.0 / 230	fixed	n	1/8000s	5.0/s	n	n
2.		Canon M3	optional	n	3.0 / 1040	tilting	Y	1/4000s	4.2/s	Y	n
3.		Canon 1D X Mark III	optical	Y	3.2 / 2100	fixed	Y	1/8000s	20.0/s	n	n
4.		Canon M6	optional	n	3.0 / 1040	tilting	Y	1/4000s	9.0/s	Y	n
5.		Canon 1D X Mark II	optical	Y	3.2 / 1620	fixed	Y	1/8000s	16.0/s	n	n
6.		Canon M5	2360	n	3.2 / 1620	tilting	Y	1/4000s	9.0/s	Y	n
7.		Canon M10	none	n	3.0 / 1040	tilting	Y	1/4000s	4.6/s	Y	n
8.		Canon G7 X	none	n	3.0 / 1040	tilting	Y	1/2000s	6.5/s	Y	Y
9.		Canon 1D C	optical	Y	3.2 / 1040	fixed	n	1/8000s	14.0/s	n	n
10.		Canon 5D Mark III	optical	Y	3.2 / 1040	fixed	n	1/8000s	6.0/s	n	n
11.		Canon 6D	optical	Y	3.0 / 1040	fixed	n	1/4000s	4.5/s	n	n
12.		Canon M	none	n	3.0 / 1040	fixed	Y	1/4000s	4.3/s	n	n
13.		Canon 1D X	optical	Y	3.2 / 1040	fixed	n	1/8000s	14.0/s	n	n
14.		Canon 5D Mark II	optical	Y	3.0 / 920	fixed	n	1/8000s	3.9/s	n	n
15.		Canon 1D Mark III	optical	Y	3.0 / 230	fixed	n	1/8000s	10.0/s	n	n
16.		Canon 1Ds Mark II	optical	Y	2.0 / 230	fixed	n	1/8000s	4.0/s	n	n
17.		Nikon D3X	optical	Y	3.0 / 922	fixed	n	1/8000s	5.0/s	n	n
Note: *) Information refers to the mechanical shutter, unless the camera only has an electronic one.

One feature that is present on the 1Ds Mark III, but is missing on the M3 is a top-level LCD. While being, of course, smaller than the rear screen, the control panel conveys some of the essential shooting information and can be convenient for quick and easy settings verification.

The 1Ds Mark III writes its imaging data to Compact Flash or SDHC cards, while the M3 uses SDXC cards. The 1Ds Mark III features dual card slots, which can be very useful in case a memory card fails. In contrast, the M3 only has one slot. The M3 supports UHS-I cards (Ultra High Speed data transfer of up to 104 MB/s), while the 1Ds Mark III cannot take advantage of Ultra High Speed SD cards.

Connectivity comparison

For some imaging applications, the extent to which a camera can communicate with its environment can be an important aspect in the camera decision process. The table below provides an overview of the connectivity of the Canon EOS-1Ds Mark III and Canon EOS M3 and, in particular, the interfaces the cameras (and selected comparators) provide for accessory control and data transfer.

Input-Output Connections

#		Camera Model	Hotshoe Port	Internal Mic / Speaker	Microphone Port	Headphone Port	HDMI Port	USB Port	WiFi Support	NFC Support	Bluetooth Support
1.		Canon 1Ds Mark III	Y	mono / -	-	-	-	2.0	-	-	-
2.		Canon M3	Y	stereo / mono	Y	-	mini	2.0	Y	Y	-
3.		Canon 1D X Mark III	Y	mono / mono	Y	Y	mini	3.1	Y	-	Y
4.		Canon M6	Y	stereo / mono	Y	-	mini	2.0	Y	Y	Y
5.		Canon 1D X Mark II	Y	mono / mono	Y	Y	mini	3.0	-	-	-
6.		Canon M5	Y	stereo / mono	Y	-	mini	2.0	Y	Y	Y
7.		Canon M10	-	stereo / mono	-	-	mini	2.0	Y	Y	-
8.		Canon G7 X	-	stereo / mono	-	-	micro	2.0	Y	Y	-
9.		Canon 1D C	Y	mono / mono	Y	Y	mini	2.0	-	-	-
10.		Canon 5D Mark III	Y	mono / mono	Y	Y	mini	2.0	-	-	-
11.		Canon 6D	Y	mono / mono	Y	-	mini	2.0	Y	-	-
12.		Canon M	Y	stereo / mono	Y	-	mini	2.0	-	-	-
13.		Canon 1D X	Y	mono / -	Y	-	mini	2.0	-	-	-
14.		Canon 5D Mark II	Y	mono / mono	Y	-	mini	2.0	-	-	-
15.		Canon 1D Mark III	Y	- / -	-	-	-	2.0	-	-	-
16.		Canon 1Ds Mark II	Y	- / -	-	-	-	2.0	-	-	-
17.		Nikon D3X	Y	- / -	-	-	mini	2.0	-	-	-

It is notable that the M3 offers wifi support, which can be a very convenient means to transfer image data to an off-camera location. In contrast, the 1Ds Mark III does not provide wifi capability.

Studio photographers will appreciate that the Canon 1Ds Mark III (unlike the M3) features a PC Sync socket, so that professional strobe lights can be controlled by the camera.

Both the 1Ds Mark III and the M3 have been discontinued, but can regularly be found used on ebay. The 1Ds Mark III was replaced by the Canon 1DX, while the M3 was followed by the Canon M6. Further information on the features and operation of the 1Ds Mark III and M3 can be found, respectively, in the Canon 1Ds Mark III Manual (free pdf) or the online Canon M3 Manual.

Review summary

So what is the bottom line? Is there a clear favorite between the Canon 1Ds Mark III and the Canon M3? Which camera is better? The listing below highlights the relative strengths of the two models.

Advantages of the Canon EOS-1Ds Mark III:

• Better image quality: Scores markedly higher (8 points) in the DXO overall assessment.
• Richer colors: Generates images with noticeably better colors (1.2 bits more color depth).
• Better low-light sensitivity: Requires less light for good images (0.5 stops ISO advantage).
• Easier framing: Has an optical viewfinder for image composition and settings control.
• Easier setting verification: Features an LCD display on top to control shooting parameters.
• Faster shutter: Has higher mechanical shutter speed (1/8000s vs 1/4000s) to freeze action.
• Faster burst: Shoots at higher frequency (5 vs 4.2 flaps/sec) to capture the decisive moment.
• More portrait friendly: Features an integrated vertical grip for easier portrait shooting.
• Longer lasting: Can take more shots (1800 versus 250) on a single battery charge.
• Better sealing: Is weather sealed to enable shooting in dusty or wet environments.
• Better studio light control: Has a PC Sync socket to connect to professional strobe lights.
• Greater peace of mind: Features a second card slot as a backup in case of memory card failure.
• More heavily discounted: Has been available for much longer (launched in August 2007).

Reasons to prefer the Canon EOS M3:

• More detail: Has more megapixels (24 vs 21MP), which boosts linear resolution by 7%.
• Broader imaging potential: Can capture not only stills but also 1080/30p video.
• Better live-view autofocus: Features on-sensor phase-detection for more confident autofocus.
• More detailed LCD: Has a higher resolution rear screen (1040k vs 230k dots).
• More flexible LCD: Has a tilting screen for odd-angle shots in landscape orientation.
• Fewer buttons to press: Has a touchscreen to facilitate handling and shooting adjustments.
• More selfie-friendly: Has an articulated screen that can be turned to be front-facing.
• More compact: Is smaller (111x68mm vs 150x160mm) and will fit more readily into a bag.
• Less heavy: Has a lower weight (by 1019g or 74 percent) and is thus easier to take along.
• More legacy lens friendly: Can use many non-native lenses via adapters.
• Easier fill-in: Has a small integrated flash to brighten shadows of backlit subjects.
• Easier file upload: Has wifi built in for automatic backup or image transfer to the web.
• Easier device pairing: Supports NFC for fast wireless image transfer over short distances.
• Faster buffer clearing: Has an SD card interface that supports the UHS-I standard.
• More affordable: Was introduced into a lower priced category (92 percent cheaper at launch).
• More modern: Reflects 7 years and 5 months of technical progress since the 1Ds Mark III launch.

If the count of individual advantages (bullet points above) is taken as a guide, the M3 emerges as the winner of the match-up (16 : 13 points). However, the pertinence of the various camera strengths will differ across photographers, so that you might want to weigh individual camera traits according to their importance for your own imaging needs before making a camera decision. A professional wildlife photographer will view the differences between cameras in a way that diverges from the perspective of a family photog, and a person interested in architecture has distinct needs from a sports shooter. Hence, the decision which camera is best and worth buying is often a very personal one.

How about other alternatives? Do the specifications of the Canon 1Ds Mark III and the Canon M3 place the cameras among the top in their class? Find out in the latest Best DSLR Camera and Best Mirrorless Interchangeable Lens Camera listings whether the two cameras rank among the cream of the crop.

In any case, while the comparison of the spec-sheets of cameras can offer a general idea of their imaging potential, it remains incomplete and does no justice, for example, to the way the 1Ds Mark III or the M3 perform in practice. User reviews that are available, for instance, at amazon can sometimes shed light on these issues, but such feedback is all too often partial, inconsistent, and inaccurate.

Expert reviews

This is why hands-on reviews by experts are important. The adjacent summary-table relays the overall verdicts of several of the most popular camera review sites (amateurphotographer [AP], cameralabs [CL], digitalcameraworld [DCW], dpreview [DPR], ephotozine [EPZ], photographyblog [PB]). As can be seen, the professional reviewers agree in many cases on the quality of different cameras, but sometimes their assessments diverge, reinforcing the earlier point that a camera decision is often a very personal choice.

Expert Camera Reviews

#		Camera   Model	AP   score	CL   score	DCW   score	DPR   score	EPZ   score	PB   score	Camera Launch	Launch Price (USD)	Street Price
1.		Canon 1Ds Mark III	..	..	..	+ +	4.5/5	..	Aug 2007	7,999	ebay.com
2.		Canon M3	4/5	o	..	75/100	4.5/5	4/5	Feb 2015	679	ebay.com
3.		Canon 1D X Mark III	..	+ +	5/5	..	4.5/5	4/5	Jan 2020	6,499	amazon.com
4.		Canon M6	..	..	..	80/100	4/5	4/5	Feb 2017	779	ebay.com
5.		Canon 1D X Mark II	..	..	4.5/5	89/100	4.5/5	4.5/5	Feb 2016	5,999	ebay.com
6.		Canon M5	4/5	+	4/5	82/100	4/5	4/5	Sep 2016	979	ebay.com
7.		Canon M10	..	..	..	..	..	4/5	Oct 2015	499	ebay.com
8.		Canon G7 X	4/5	+ +	..	77/100	4.5/5	4.5/5	Sep 2014	699	ebay.com
9.		Canon 1D C	..	..	..	..	..	..	Apr 2012	14,999	ebay.com
10.		Canon 5D Mark III	..	+ +	..	82/100	4.5/5	4.5/5	Mar 2012	3,499	ebay.com
11.		Canon 6D	5/5	+ +	..	83/100	4.5/5	4.5/5	Sep 2012	2,099	ebay.com
12.		Canon M	3/5	+	..	..	4/5	4/5	Jul 2012	599	ebay.com
13.		Canon 1D X	5/5	..	..	..	4.5/5	4.5/5	Oct 2011	6,799	ebay.com
14.		Canon 5D Mark II	4/5	91/100	..	79/100	4/5	..	Sep 2008	3,499	ebay.com
15.		Canon 1D Mark III	..	..	..	..	..	..	Feb 2007	4,499	ebay.com
16.		Canon 1Ds Mark II	..	..	..	+ +	..	..	Sep 2004	7,999	ebay.com
17.		Nikon D3X	..	..	..	86/100	4/5	5/5	Dec 2008	7,999	ebay.com
Note: (+ +) highly recommended; (+) recommended; (o) reviewed; (..) not available.

Care should be taken when interpreting the review scores above, though. The assessments were made in relation to similar cameras of the same technological generation. Hence, a score should always be seen in the context of the camera's market launch date and its price, and comparisons of ratings among very different cameras or across long time periods have little meaning. It should also be noted that some of the review sites have over time altered the way they render their verdicts.

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Other camera comparisons

Did this review help to inform your camera decision process? In case you are interested in seeing how other cameras pair up, just make a corresponding selection in the search boxes below. Alternatively, you can follow any of the listed hyperlinks for comparisons that others found interesting.

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